This is the eighth and final installment of our amazing interview with Matt Clinton of Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Parents – you are more of a model for your kids than you’ll ever know! Matt gives some great practical advice on how to help them set boundaries by actually setting boundaries for yourself.
Matt Clinton, Fellowship of Christian Athletes: My daughter, who is only 18-months-old, can already work an iPhone. She already knows how to swipe through the pictures on her favorite app and scroll to what she wants to see. So, I’ve never been more aware of how much time I spend on my phone until I saw my own child just doing what I always do. I’m not saying that what I do on my phone is wrong – most of the time, I’m simply scrolling through the news or a book or something. But, when my son comes along and grabs my phone out of my hand because he wants to hang out with me, it’s a sign that my “news-scrolling” is taking up too much time.
Then, when you watch your own kids model your behavior back to you, it’s very revealing.
When they see dad working twelve hours a day, they think that is how normal parenting is done. When they see mom on social media all the time, they think that being on social media all the time is what older people do, and they set their own lives in that direction.
Now, I know that I’m stereotyping with both of these examples, but you can insert whatever behavior you want in there, and then think, “What message am I sending to my kids and do I want them to model this behavior?”
I’ve noticed this to the point where I’ll turn my ringer off at home and place it face down in a different room, and try to BE with my family. Of course, there are times when I’m practically getting the detox shakes by not having my phone on me, but it’s a lesson I’m willing to learn in order to teach it to my kids – we need to be with the people we are with.
Parents – here’s a fun game when you go out to dinner: Everyone puts their phones in the middle of the table and set them all to silently vibrate, so that every time a text comes in or someone gets a notification, the pile of phones buzzes. The first person to grab their phone because they can’t handle it anymore pays for the meal!
It’s a fun game and it absolutely freaks out high school kids! Notifications make them twitch. It makes you wonder: Are you ok with not knowing what is going on with everyone everywhere all the time?
I remember a time when I was in grad school. Class got out and a bunch of us were walking out together toward the parking lot. There was almost a couple dozen of us together, but we all instantly started checking our phones as we walked… all of us except one of my friends. Instead, he got all of our attention:
“Here we are surrounded by people and we want to talk to people who we are not surrounded by.”
Yeah… in one sentence he pretty much summed up our culture. And that’s the pressure teens are under all day, every day. They feel like they can’t miss a single post. If they take longer than a few minutes to respond to a text, they must be angry at the other person. Denying someone their instant gratification is a foreign thought to kids today.
Leslie Salazar Carrillo, Im Waiting: Gut check! Just now, when we first started this interview, my phone was buzzing and I had to check the incoming texts… even while you were speaking to me! I’m so sorry.
As we wrap up, how can people help you and the team at Fellowship of Christian Athletes?
Matt: Every ministry has too many needs. For starters, just check out what we do. Go to our website and click around. Learn about us. Pray for wisdom. We know that often our time is very short when we are on high school campuses, so we need to spend our time wisely.
Then, if you’re up for it, come and spend some time with us on campus. I promise, it’ll be an impactful 30 minutes. And, bring pizza! It’s amazing how teens will simply follow anyone with free pizza.
Kids will hear about Jesus… and with pizza, even more kids will come and hear!
You see, we’re no different than any other ministry out there. Going to high schoolers in their own environment is our lane and we love doing it.
We use the influence of coaches and athletes to share the Gospel. This can look differently on different days at different schools. It could be a Bible study, or an outreach event, or a partnership event like the ones we have with Pregnancy Resource Center. But, if you can make the time to come and see a lunch meeting, you’ll see the reality of where and how today’s kids live.
I’ve regularly seen high-powered adults who broker million-dollar deals on a weekly basis get the sweats when they step foot on a high school campus. Just walking the halls takes them right back to when they were 16, along with all the insecurities and anxieties they felt back then. It’s a great moment when you realize what your teens face every day.
Leslie: Not everybody is called to work with kids. In fact, most of us who do are simply crazy. Because teenagers are brutally honest. But we are called to prayer.
So, pray for those of us who are working to reach the next generation with God’s word.
We’ve heard so many heart-wrenching stories, and there are days where we wonder if we can continue on any more.
But, the truth is that we love these kids with a love that surpasses all understanding.
We want a revival to start here in America, and I think that today’s teens will be the ones to obediently bring it on. It may not look like what we expect because the times change. But, while times change, people don’t.
We need to encourage our kids to be faithful, brave and strong and walk hard after the Lord. They are the 1 Peter 2:9 generation:
…you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
Matt: I’m reminded every day that I pray a certain way and I expect certain things. That’s just how so many of us are wired. But, I also pray that God will show up in ways that I don’t expect.
2,000 years ago, so many people missed Jesus because He didn’t match their expectations. I don’t want to miss being a part of this generation and the revival that may come because of my own expectations.
One small example is when God shows me time after time a kid who I wouldn’t naturally pick as a great leader, yet they go on to make a huge impact for God’s kingdom on their campus. Each time I see this, God humbles me again, reminding me that it’s not my plan, but His at work.
We simply need to stand alongside today’s teens and encourage them.
Leslie: Leave a legacy of how you disciple and impact kids. Walk with them, cry with them, and then dust them off and send them off again.
Working with kids costs a lot. It does come at a certain sacrifice, whether it be in your income, your family, or your social life.
So, count the cost. And know that, if you are obediently serving God, the devil knows that if he can’t get to you then he’ll go after your family.
Pray for Matt, his family and the guys at FCA because they are doing a mighty work for God!
We hope that you’ve enjoyed this interview with Matt Clinton. We are always blessed when we hear about what he is doing with the next generation through Fellowship of Christian Athletes. His wisdom and compassion pour through his words. If you’d like more information about what Matt and the team at FCA are doing, simply check out SanDiegoFCA.org.
Matt Clinton of Fellowship of Christian Athletes desires to partner with parents in pouring into their kids to help them navigate through their teenage years.
Leslie Salazar Carrillo, Im Waiting: The socio-economic spectrum that you work within is very broad. You deal with very wealthy families as well as impoverished. So, what would you say to parents, regardless of where they live or their socio-economic status, as all their kids are asking, “How am I supposed to live this life?”
Matt Clinton, Fellowship of Christian Athletes: I look at my own conversations with my own kids at home. Now, my son is only five-years-old, so we’re not up to the heavy hitting topics yet. But, still, it’s critical that I build in time into my days to be available for him.
Now, I know that being available to our children isn’t breaking news. I also know that eventually, they’ll hit a stage where they think that it’s not cool to hang out with their parents. But, we need to be available.
It’s also important to find people who really, genuinely care about your kid. Especially people who are outside of your family. That’s often where “life change happens”.
As a guy who is one of those “outside the family” people, most of the time, all I’m doing is parroting exactly what the parents are saying.
But, since it’s not mom or dad saying these things, it seems to make a huge difference.
Couple with the innate problems and pressures that teens face, I think that in today’s culture, there are so many distractions, options and influences out there that their heads just spin!
I mean, as just one example, it seems like many kids today are more concerned about who is following them on Instagram or how many retweets they receive than anything else.
So, one large part of the battle is to try to figure out what our kids’ priorities are.
But, across the board, kids want attention and they will seek it out and get it somewhere. This begs the question of “What kind of attention can we give them and how intentional can we be?”
Now, I’ve spent most of my adult life helping to raise other people’s kids. And I’m very passionate about that. But, ultimately, if I’m so wrapped up in other people’s kids that when I come home I have nothing to offer my own children, then I’m useless.
So, I’m learning on my own, too, that we need to be intentional, even when and especially when it’s not easy. The hard truth is that kids just want time and attention.
Leslie: We’ve found that kids often say things like, “I just wish my parents would understand…” or, “I wish my parents would only…”
Have you witnessed this, too?
Matt: Oh yeah, that’s extremely common.
I mean, I live in a world of teenagers, and I can’t understand all of them all the time or the pressure they’re under. And, there is a small number of parents out there who really understand their teens, and they know them far better than I ever could.
But, more than trying to understand every single “why do they do that” or “what are they thinking”, I think parents would be well-served to try to understand the pressure that their kids are under.
If nothing else, find the time to walk on a high school campus. You will be stunned at what teens talk about, what they do and what you would see. I mean, supposedly there are dress codes and zero tolerance rules, but you might be appalled to hear and see the things that even “good kids” wear, say and do when they think adults are not watching.
So, I encourage adults (parents, speakers, donors… almost anyone) to come with me to an FCA meeting and be encouraged by the dedication and growth of the Christian leaders who we work with. But, I also tell them to pay careful attention to the three minute walk through the halls.
THAT’S where we learn what it is that our kids are dealing with each day. Even the kids who are the best kids of all time and are following Jesus with all their heart, soul, and mind… this is still what they are up against each and every day.
There is a relentless pressure in all aspects of our kids’ worlds today, and I just don’t think that parents understand. Each kid is faced with well over 100 tough decisions each day.
Leslie: Amen! I tell parents to remember back to when they were in high school and reflect on the unique pressures you faced. Pressures at school, pressures at home, pressures in the classroom and on the ball field, pressures to fit in, pressures to find your own identity… everything that you faced while just trying to get through your day.
Now, those pressures are common to nearly every generation of teenagers. But, you need to realize that today’s teens are the first post-9/11 generation. They’ve never known a time when we weren’t under the treat of terrorism. They’ve never known an era when schools weren’t shot up. They’ve never lived in an era when people of all ages aren’t told that their identity is based on their sexuality…
THAT’S the unique pressure THEY live in today.
Yet, like all teens, the frontal lobe of their brains, which governs problem solving, judgment, impulse control, and social and sexual behavior, is not fully developed. So, they are physically unable to handle all these incredible pressures. And, this is not the some high school experience that any parents out there grew up with.
For one, the boundaries that were understood across the board simply do not exist anymore. Even the guys and girls who are trying to be good are being bombarded by naked photos of their classmates being sent to them via text, Snapchat, or by other means. In fact, for many kids today, sexting is simply a part of dating. As a cultural group, they’ve convinced themselves that it’s safe since they’re not actually having intercourse. They figure since they can’t get pregnant or catch and STD, and they hope that no one will ever know about it, then it’s safe. But, the truth is that it’s not. And yet they still engage in it.
Matt: Yeah… I get it, but I really don’t get it. I mean, I understand their faulty logic, but I just don’t understand why they would engage in sexting and all these other things when they know the real risks.
And, I know that there are a lot of kids out there who, in their heart, don’t want to do these things. But they feel the pressure that if they don’t, they’ll be left behind and won’t be accepted.
Our kids are presented with this every day. And, there are new tools so they can go incognito made and released every day.
They – the developers and today’s teens – are always are one step ahead of us.
Leslie: Typically, as soon as kids realize that their parents have some messaging or photosharing technology figured out, they move on… if not way before their parents have a clue. Kids don’t use Facebook. If they do, it’s just as a front to make it look like they’re behaving.
Who has the kind of time that it takes to keep up with Snapchat, or Whisper, or WhatsApp, or whatever is next?
Matt: Well, today’s teens make the time. They make it a priority. Look, We all have 168 hours per week. But we each choose differently how to spend those 168 hours.
I ask kids to chart their time in any given week. We constantly discover that they spend a lot in pursuit of acceptance and identity. It’s an ongoing battle. It may or may not be a winnable battle, but its one that we need to be aware of. Social media cannot be an idol or cause anxiety.
Leslie: Kids need to realize that 95% of real life is NOT on social media. Therefore, your value isn’t coming from your likes, but because you were created to have value! Even with all your imperfections – and we all have them – you are still valuable! You have value because you were created in God’s image… and that has more value than any of us could ever imagine.
Parents play such an important role in how their kids understand their own value. Tune in next week to learn how YOU can partner with Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Matt Clinton.
Matt Clinton of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes is a great teacher. He effectively shows kids in practical ways how society is taking God’s original plans SO out of context. This week, we continue our ongoing conversation with Matt regarding today’s teens, the pressures they are up against, and the hard truths about sex in our society.
Matt Clinton, Fellowship of Christian Athletes: Ultimately, we’ve taken something created for so much good and made it all about us. The hard truth is that by making sex so casual, it also makes us selfish. Sex becomes based on solely the physical outcome and your pleasure.
Yet, God’s plan is so far different than that.
Yes, sex is amazing… but it is so much more than the physical, when it’s approached within God’s plans for it. But, this is so difficult to communicate to someone who isn’t married – like the kids we work with every day. So, one nice thing is that the stats back this up. Therefore, we could even take the “God card” out of our discussion and simply talk about what marital intimacy is like, and the difference between sex within marriage and hooking up. Luckily – or unluckily, depending on your perspective – this is a daily discussion we have. And, unlike most adults, we are willing to have it with the high schoolers we meet.
Not everyone wants to talk about it, but we are willing, able, and eager to bring it into the light.
Leslie Salazar Carrillo, Im Waiting: Teenage guys have it tough. I get that, stereotypically, men are made to see the mountain and take the mountain… it’s what makes you great soldiers. But that doesn’t mean that doing the right thing is sacrificed. Many of the guys we meet want to be good guys – even those who have not chosen to follow Jesus still want to be good people.
But nobody has ever shown them how.
So many of these guys are growing up without a healthy male role model. Nobody is showing them how to behave rightly and make right decisions.
Sure, their mom may be working two or three jobs, just trying to hold things together. But, what is really needed is a man teaching these boys how to be good, responsible young men.
Matt: And even when there are good people setting examples for kids, there is a real difference between good people and people who are teaching kids how to lead.
Anyone who has played organized sports can look back and say, “Oh yeah… that coach was AWEFUL! But, THAT coach was AWESOME!!” So, what’s the difference? Some of it may be tactical, but most of the time, it boils down to how you are treated. These tend to be the building blocks of leadership and of teaching leadership.
Personally, I’ve had a ton of positive influences in my life – many of whom follow Jesus with all their heart, soul and mind – but I wish they would have pushed me more. Sometimes it takes a little kick in the butt to get guys moving in the right direction.
So, today, I meet one kid after another that are a lot like I was… they need to be led and pushed. And not just so that they could lead others, but for their own benefit. They’ve heard God’s truth, but they aren’t really listening. They aren’t applying God’s Word in their lives.
This makes me so thankful to God that I get to be a part of these kids’ lives for this short time. But then I start to wonder… how many more are just like these guys?
I mean, I know that I’m nobody special… I’ve just been given an opportunity to step in. But, I’m only stepping into the lives a few kids, when there are thousands just in my area alone!
So, if we can get coaches on board, or small group volunteers, or teachers to have these conversations with the kids… then we could make an even larger impact!
But, the truth is that we are so small in number. Jesus was so accurate when He said:
“The harvest is great, but the workers are few. So pray to the Lord who is in charge of the harvest; ask him to send more workers into his fields.”
We need to provide opportunities for them – opportunities to learn, to grow, and to face their issues alongside someone instead of on their own.
Leslie: A mutual friend of ours, Rick Garza, has an amazing life story. He shows kids God’s truth every time he speaks to them… and the kids are just drawn to him. Especially the ones who tend to wake up each morning without hope. So many of these kids in particular are yearning for truth! They want to see how their lives can be different than the examples that they’ve seen from generation to generation.
Matt needed good examples while he was growing up. So, today, he is standing in that gap as a leader to the teens he works with. He is realizing just how big the mission is, but how few workers there really are.
Be sure to tune in next time, as we hear about how parents can be influential, too.
This week, we continue our conversation with Matt Clinton of Fellowship of Christian Athletes. FCA is so much more than once-a-week meetings for Christian high schoolers. Matt uses his own past experiences to show teens that God isn’t looking for technical purity. God wants a heart sold out to Him!
Leslie Salazar Carrillo, Im Waiting: At Im Waiting, we’re hearing about “technical virginity” these days. The Center for Disease Control recently stated that on average, 68% of teens are not engaging in sexual intercourse. Which is great. However, statistics show that oral sex is still at 50%. Now, many Christian parents say, “Oh… but that doesn’t include our kids. That’s reflective of those other kids out there.” But, the truth is that within the Christian community, the statistics are the same.
Because Christian teens are taught that they should hold their virginity dearly… and they do, but they are striving for “technical virginity”. I hear a lot of teens saying things like, “Well, we’re only having oral sex, and the Bible tells us not to have sex, and oral sex isn’t really sex, so I think God is okay with it.”
So, what I am constantly repeating these days is, “God is not looking for technicalities. God is looking for purity of heart.”
Matt Clinton, Fellowship of Christian Athletes: I think that all of us are really good at justifying what we want. I heard a pastor say once, “If you’re asking ‘where is the line’, you’re asking the wrong question.”
And I can relate. I’m a very typical man and I’m not proud of how I always led my wife before we were married. We didn’t have intercourse, but I know that I didn’t do a good job at leading her and instead, I led us into situations that were really not very honoring to her. Now, we’ve been forgiven and redeemed, thank God… but, as young people, we ticked all the boxes for a young Christian dating couple – we volunteered at church, we both knew Jesus Christ… but the struggle is real!
So, what I have learned is that too often, we assume when we hear good Christian kids saying the right things and looking the part, that they are being completely transparent. The truth is that for Christian couples today, dating is tough. It’s tough for them, and it’s tough for us as mentors.
But, what I like about Im Waiting and the things that you do is how you emphasize that sex is about so much more than the physical. You don’t hesitate to talk about the emotional aspects of sex and the attachment that occurs.
One of the lies that I believed when I was a teenager was that pornography only affected me. Boy, was I wrong. Not only was I wrong in engaging with porn, but I was wrong in all my selfish assumptions about it.
So, today, I get to tell the guys I mentor, “When you use porn and fantasize about those women, you take those images and expectations with you into your marriage.” I get to tell guys what porn does to their minds, and their unrealistic assumptions of what sex with their wife will be like.
On the other hand, I tell them, “Hey, I appreciate that you’re not sexually active, but I promise you that if you are engaging with porn, it has its own lasting results that you will have to deal with eventually. Believe it or not, you are giving your heart and your mind away, even to these two-dimensional images. Sure, you’re avoiding the risks of pregnancy and STD’s, but there is so much more to sex than that!”
And I had no clue when I was younger. I had no idea what the process was going to be like to work through all that now that I’m married.
Leslie: You know, I hear a lot of people having a hard time understanding what you and I do when we talk to students. It’s not like we’re trying to suck the fun out of people’s lives. Whatever decisions they make is completely up to them and we don’t stand in judgment at all. We’re simply educating them with science.
The hard truth is that for ever action, there are consequences – some are much more life-giving than others.
And, speaking of science, I love when science backs up what we’ve been trying to say for so long. For example, it was recently announced that a boy’s average age is 7½ when he is introduced to porn. Typically, it’s unintentional. But, it’s something that parents today need to be aware of and be ready to have appropriate conversations about.
Because another hard truth is that pornography is not a victimless industry.
I know people who have come out of the sex industry, who worked as prostitutes, and they are fully aware of how much energy is put on stopping human trafficking in regards to prostitutes on the street. But the truth is that many prostitutes start out by doing porn. Far too many girls are trafficked in, put in front of a camera in a “safe” environment, and before too long, they are out on the streets.
Porn leads to sex trafficking. It’s NOT victimless. And if you engage with it on your computer or phone, you are also engaging with the trafficking that goes along with it.
Another question (one very related to all this) we often get is, “Is masturbation okay?”
You see, when you masturbate – especially while engaging with porn – you’re bonding with a mental image. And that bond does not go away. This image that you are bonded with does not have emotions, expectations, joys, sorrows, or needs of its own. Therefore, It’s all about you. All this cements in your brain the definition of sex as being self-centered and narcissistic.
Matt: That’s science. You’re educating properly. And that blows my mind!
I know a guy who has struggled with porn for several years. Meanwhile, he has had opportunities to date girls, but after learning that they had sexual histories, he was struggling with how to deal with their past sex lives. I had to tell him, “Dude, I hate to break it to you, but your past isn’t altogether much different. Scientifically, the mental, chemical and relational connections you’ve made with the porn models you fantasize about aren’t much different than someone who has actually, physically had sex with another person.”
Of course, there are differences, but there are also a whole slew of measurable similarities. This is part of the struggle that simply goes unnoticed and undiscussed… until they end up in marriage counseling.
Leslie: And the truth is that overall, guys are created to be visual; while women were created to be more emotional. That’s part of the problem with porn – guys are visually drawn to it, but then their ability to connect emotionally with their wives is handicapped, since they’ve never had to emotionally deal with the girls on the computer.
Although, porn is rising among females.
Matt: Right… at surprising rates. Largely because it’s so accessible. And, I don’t know how to combat that. Even my five-year-old is just a couple clicks away from porn. Not even intentionally – just clicking from one cartoon to Googling another to BAM… there it is! It’s a daily fight, but it can be won.
Leslie: I love that science proves us right. If nothing else, it makes us sound “less crazy”. The facts are there:
Porn re-wires the brain. For instance, when a man views porn, the same part of the brain is activated as when he uses a hammer, wrench, or some other tool. Therefore, the mental re-wiring that happens associates women with something that is meant to be used for a particular purpose, and that’s it.
Then, even when the guys are married, it’s difficult for guys to re-wire their brains to the way God intended and recognize their wife’s needs.
This is just part of Matt and my discussion regarding how science offers definitive answers regarding the destruction that pornography causes – especially in teens. Matt is so good at addressing these tough issues with high schoolers, and we will continue discussing these tough topics and more next week!
This week, we continue our conversation with Matt Clinton of Fellowship of Christian Athletes. FCA is so much more than once-a-week meetings for Christian high schoolers. Matt is encouraging peer-to-peer mentorship and seeing amazing results.
Matt Clinton, Fellowship of Christian Athletes: The victory in what we do are the life change stories. For whatever reason, God has allowed us to be a part of these incredible people’s stories. It’s obvious we’re not the ones doing it – it’s all God’s work – but we get to be a part of it.
I think that a lot of the kids used to feel like they walk around with a giant bullseye on their back because they claim to follow Jesus. Therefore, there are a whole lot of people just sitting there, watching and waiting for them to do something wrong. Then, they could just fire right into that bullseye and say, “See! You’re just like us!”
And, these amazing Christian students are learning, “Yep. I am just like you. BUT, here’s why I’m different…”
And they’re learning how to share how the hope, security, and identity that they have in Jesus sets them apart.
For me… when I was in high school, I would have been totally defeated by that, and I wouldn’t have known how to share the truth about Jesus Christ. But these kids are bold and unashamed. They are unabashedly living out Romans 1:16,
For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile.
They are just going for it! And, it’s fun to be a part of it. In them, I see a boldness that I wish that I had when I was younger.
Leslie Salazar Carrillo, Im Waiting: But you have it now. And what you have, you are pouring into them.
Now, where we are as a nation today, we can draw a safe little circle around ourselves, or we can start a revival. And, to start a revival, all we need to do is connect with one kid and it will spread. It’s not a numbers game. It’s simply being obedient to what God has called us to do, and invest our time and energy in the kid or kids that God brings to us.
Of course, it’s easy to look at my regretful decisions and be paralyzed by them… or I can move forward and be obedient today. And that’s what these kids need to hear, too!
Sure, they may have made mistakes – even as recent as this morning. They may have been a huge partier, or drug dealer, or maybe they have slept around. But that’s not who they are identified as in God’s eyes.
That guilt and shame will chew us up and spit us out every time.
Matt: You know, there’s an aspect of guilt and shame culture in my family that I wasn’t even aware of. So, as I’ve grown older and now that I’ve become a parent, myself, a lot of things have come up that I didn’t even know were in there.
So, with this newfound wisdom, I’m able to see more clearly just how littered these teenagers are with that same type of guilt and shame baggage.
So, the question I ask them is, “How can we get past this stuff? Because there’s nowhere that you’ll find this in the Bible. Jesus didn’t guilt or shame anyone.”
Leslie: How people see you does not define you. That’s something that kids deal with every day. It’s so important to let kids know that whatever decisions they made last year do not need to define who they are today. I tell kids all the time, “You can reinvent yourself… and you inevitably will!”
Matt: I see that, in particular, with a lot of the guys who I have walked alongside and have since graduated high school and have moved on to adulthood. So, now, I’m talking about marriage with some of these guys. Now, these are guys who know the right answers – they know what the Bible says about how we ought to live.
Probably the biggest obstacle they face is the big question, “Why wait for sex?”
To get to talk through “why” with young men who are really trying o follow Jesus is fun!
It’s so much better than what I was told, which was… “Just DON’T. You can have sex when you’re married. Until then… JUST DON’T.”
But, with these guys, as well as the high schoolers who we mentor, I’m seeing a group of people who get the “why’s” of God’s plans for our lives. They understand more and more that life isn’t just a bunch of do’s and don’ts, but that life has a purpose and to fulfill that purpose, there are healthy boundaries and blessings within those boundaries.
And, I think that as these kids continue to grow in their understanding and in their boldness, we will see a real change in our culture!
One example is that so many homes that we work with are “mom-driven” households. When moms lead the family, it’s not necessarily a terrible thing, but it’s not God’s plan – God wants men to lead.
So, for the guys that I’m mentoring, I’m able to tell them, “This is coming. Whether you think you’ve signed up for this or not, it’s coming down the line, right at you. God is calling you to be leaders… so what does that look like? And, what does it look like as teenagers to prepare for this calling?
And, we’re actually seeing tons of victories in this very area: guys ready to lead.
In our current series of podcasts, Matt Clinton of Fellowship of Christian Athletes (FCA) and I have been discussing the various struggles that teens face today, especially regarding their identity – who they are and where they fit in.
This week, though, we also talk about the unique victories that the students Matt meets with are having that too often go unnoticed.
Leslie: Throughout our whole lives, our identity is challenged. Even as adults, you and I can sit here and wonder where exactly do we fit in this great big world.
Once upon a time, I was an athlete. In fact, I’m nursing an old softball injury, and having to realize that I may never be able to play softball again. Now, I’ve been playing softball for nearly my entire life, so to look in the mirror and say, “Wow… I’m not a softball player anymore.” That’s a tough thing because we do tend to identify with those types of things… even as “grown ups”.
And, when it comes to identity, it’s getting harder and harder to nail down who we are and who we are supposed to be.
Even when it comes to the very basics, like gender. Princeton University wants to get rid of all gender specific vocabulary throughout the school’s policies and curriculum. And that’s an obstacle that I have to work around, too, as I speak at public schools. I can’t make any assumptions regarding the students’ gender identities or school policies. So, I also have to speak “gender neutral”.
And, quite honestly, I’m great with this. I love all kids exactly where they are at. And I don’t want to alienate any of them.
My point is that all of this compiles on top of the age-old questions that kids ask:
“Who am I? Why am I here? How do I fit in? What is my identity?”
So, all this makes me wonder, what are the greatest victories that kids are having these days?
Matt: It’s interesting these days because I feel like, as a follower of Jesus, we are constantly backed into a corner within today’s culture. There are some people who just lay down and take it, figuring they have found salvation and now they’ll just punch their ticket while they kill time here on earth. But, there are others who are willing to come out fighting out of the corner.
It’s so odd to me that being a Christian has become a counter-cultural phenomenon. But, what I find exciting is that there are some kids, coaches and teachers who are all about that! They are okay with not being in the majority because they know that their identity comes from being accepted by God, not by the people around them.
So, I think that while culturally we may be getting beat back by a variety of different forces from more angles than ever, the nucleus of the kids who are still standing strong for Jesus is as strong as it’s ever been.
And what’s really awesome is that these kids are taking the time to understand who Jesus is, rather than just repeating a mantra that someone at youth group may have told them. A large reason for this is that more and more youth groups are spending more time on apologetics, equipping kids to not only learn about what the Bible says, but apply it to their lives with conversational aspects of Christian reasoning.
Back in the day, the old message for Christian teens was simply: Don’t do drugs, don’t drink alcohol, and don’t have sex before you’re married!
This approach doesn’t work.
It was the equivalent of sticking a giant red button in front of them and telling them, “Just don’t touch this! And that was it. “Don’t push the red button” was how they described faith. That just didn’t work… even for the “best” of kids.
Today, I’m seeing kids taking the time to learn how to simply be an awesome, normal person… while loving Jesus and having conversations about Him and what He wants for us.
That’s a huge victory for today’s teens.
Not too long ago, the Christian on campus may have been viewed as the nerdy kid… the guy who was different than everyone else and didn’t have much to do with anyone else. Today, though, the school’s ASB President, Varsity Quarterback or Point Guard – the people running things among today’s high schoolers – are following and proclaiming Jesus! And, by their nature, these kids aren’t just following along with what we are talking about, but they are leading.
And best of all, these leaders are doing the groundwork in making disciples of Jesus!
Leslie: I was in Youth Ministry for years, and I quoted 1 Peter 2:8-9 all the time:
They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
I’ve learned that when kids learn and own the fact that they are a chosen generation – part of a royal priesthood – then they joyfully find so much more victory than they could ever imagine!
Something that I’ve been thinking a lot about lately is that we need to be Jesus “in the practical”. We need to take an honest look at ourselves as sinners with real struggles. But, we also need to realize that we have an Almighty God to turn to in the midst of those struggles.
We need to show people that we chose different things because of Jesus, not just out of scare tactics, but because of how Jesus cares for us and wants us to avoid real consequences.
We need to love people like Jesus loved – with dignity, respect and honor for other people.
Matt: Working on high school campuses with FCA, I quickly realized that some of these schools have 3,000 kids on campus. So, one at a time, I’ve gotten to know as many kids as I can. I get to know their stories – what they’re going through, their family dynamics, and so on. But then I quickly am hit with the reality that this kid is just one of
3,000 on their campus. Yet that doesn’t intimidated them at all in standing firm for Jesus. And that encourages me!
Pastor Able Mendez at Calvary Chapel Oceanside puts it this way: “It’s a crazy world and Jesus has put YOU here. That says a lot about what He thinks of you. God knew that all this was coming. He’s not surprised. He’s on the throne.”
So, how will we react?
When I was a teenager, I was equipped, but didn’t step up.
So now, in a lot of ways, I walk around the high schools and I look for “me”. I seek out the kids who might be able to be an influence on their campus, teach them about Jesus, and who they are in God’s eyes. Then I tell them to go out an look for the other kids who are just like that and share God’s word with them.
“Go find me!”
Tune in next week when we will hear how Matt is not only equipping today’s teenagers, but also giving them the courage to boldly step out of their comfort zones and follow Jesus!
Once again, I am joined by one of Im Waiting’s biggest supporters, Matt Clinton. Matt is the Fellowship of Christian Athletes (FCA) rep in Carlsbad, Oceanside and Vista, CA. But more than that, he is an amazing guy who constantly pours himself into the lives of the kids who he mentors and disciples. By meeting with Christian teenagers on their turf, Matt has a unique opportunity to see their struggles, their realities, their temptations, and their victories… all very up close.
Now, when we offer our presentations at schools, we come on campus, do our presentation, meet with some kids… but then we leave after a day or two. This often bums me out because kids need more than these brief encounters to make lasting impressions on their lives. That’s why we have partnered with FCA, since they are on local campuses all the time with the ability to really follow up and walk alongside the students.
Leslie: First off, Matt… tell me about yourself and what drives you in your ministry.
Matt: Well, I grew up in Carlsbad and went to Carlsbad High School, so I’m very familiar with this region. Sports, popularity and acceptance were huge to me back then. I was the ultimate “fence straddler” when it came to being all things to all people – whether they were my church friends or party friends. I knew who Jesus is and I knew he was real, but I was really a “moralistic” kid. It’s easy to say that I knew what Jesus wanted for me, but I wasn’t following Him in those years.
Now, I have the opportunity to be back on high school campuses and I see that ALL kids want to be accepted and included by their peers. Unfortunately, there is an abundance of ways to achieve this.
That’s where we are able to step in. Fellowship of Christian Athletes is an on-campus Bible study with opportunities to mentor and disciple student leaders, as well as coaches, faculty, and school staff. Through this, we try to reveal and explore new ways to see life and acceptance… and find God’s joy in it!
In hindsight, I really wish someone had come to me with something like this when I was in high school, my life would have been radically changed.
Prior to working with FCA, I taught in the Oceanside School District. I was a long-term substitute teacher and coach for three years. I really thought that that was my calling in life – to teach and to coach. I thought that I was pretty good at it and things were looking good. And it seemed to be the perfect blend of my skillsets and my passion.
But, God had a change of plan for me. The District had to make some massive budget cuts, and I was let go.
Leslie: So, you went from the instability of working at a school in the midst of a recession to working for a non-profit?
Matt: See, that’s part of how I knew God was working “behind the scenes” where I couldn’t see. When I learned more about FCA, I saw the combination of high school sports and Christianity along with the aspects of coaching, teaching, mentoring and discipling and I was instantly drawn to it! As a District employee, if I stood up in class and talked about my faith, I’d be fired for sure. But as an FCA rep, I can stand in those same classrooms and tell people all about Jesus without any hesitation!
So, now I facilitate Bible studies and raise leaders. So, I’ve been doing this for seven years now, and I can’t imagine doing anything different!
Leslie: One thing I find so incredible is how much Matt is respected on the campuses he works on. Whenever I visit one of his schools, it seems like everyone knows Matt Clinton and the huge impact he has made on people’s lives over the years!
That being said, mentioning the fact that we’re friends has opened up many doors for me! (I’m not too proud to name drop, that’s for sure!)
Matt: Flattery will get you everywhere!.. as does food and coffee!
Leslie: It’s for those very reasons that Matt and I often meet at Panera.
Now, before the interview, we were talking about challenges of marriage and family. You have two kids, right?
Matt: Correct. My wife and I have been married for nine years and we have a five-year-old and an 18-month-old running around.
Leslie: Wow. You’re… busy!
Now, as I mentioned, at the Pregnancy Resource Center and I’m Waiting, we connect with kids at our local schools, but then we leave because we need to move on to the next school. But, that’s why I love working with you guys at FCA. Because you remain on campus. We can send the kids who need someone to talk with to you guys.
Then, you don’t just talk at them, but you show them who Jesus is. You show them Jesus in the practical by really listening to them and walking alongside them through life.
What are kid’s biggest struggles these days?
Matt: It probably sounds like an old and trite answer, but identity is massive with today’s teenagers. Back in the day, I had a fair amount of friends, I was a pretty successful athlete – even playing at the collegiate level.
But, no one cares about how any of that today.
Yet, back then, being an athlete was first and foremost in regards to who I was. I didn’t realize that for even the greatest of athletes, eventually the jersey comes off.
Today, I see kids wondering who they really are. Where do they fit in?
So, it’s such an privilege to be allowed into their lives – to encourage them and show them how their identity really and entirely rests in Jesus Christ.
What we’ve been able to show them is that there is true freedom in Jesus!
We saw a great example of this at the Summer Olympic Games, as silver medalist diver Steel Johnson said:
“It’s cool because this is exciting, this is fun, but this is not what my identity will be for the rest of my life. Yeah, I’m Steele Johnson the Olympian, but at the same time I’m here to love and serve Christ. My identity is rooted in Christ, not in the flips we’re doing.”
For most kids, they haven’t been told about their identity in Jesus. So, acceptance from their peers and key influencers becomes paramount. They want affirmation and acceptance from their coaches, they look for acceptance through social media, and they look for belonging and acceptance via sexual encounters. So many of these avenues that they think lead to acceptance and identity are actually nothing but a path of lies.
Even Christian kids struggle with this.
So, through FCA, we encourage kids to look at what Jesus has to say about life in the Bible. Then, compare what their peers, or movies, or music, or culture has to say about life with what Jesus has to say about it. This begins their process of understanding where they stand and where their identity comes from.
This turns into intentional discipleship. I get to show them not just WHAT the Bible says, but HOW it matters in their lives.
I tell them, “Whether or not you signed up for this, here is what God is calling you to be, especially as a male leader. This could pertain to your role out on the field, amongst your friends, around your siblings, or wherever else you go, but this is what God calls you to be. I don’t know if you have had this modeled for you at home or anywhere else – you may have never seen Godly leadership anywhere in your life. Sorry. But, there’s no way around it. This is the deal. This is what God has called you to be.”
And, we have had some massive breakthroughs!
Over the summer, my co-worker, Jordan, and I took four of our guys to the mountains on a weeklong retreat. We hiked. We fished. We turned off our phones and connected with God and each other instead of the Internet.
We were able to dig deep with them and ask the tough questions like, “Who are you… really?”
And these are all kids who have grown up knowing who Jesus is, but they’ve never been challenged to live according to God’s word.
Now, these guys will be leading on their campuses!
And, I think that with these guys as leaders, these school campuses can change!
Hi, I’m Leslie Salazar Carrillo, Director of the I’m Waiting program.
I had a chance recently to sit down with Matt Clinton of Fellowship of Christian Athletes in the Oceanside, Carlsbad, and Vista areas. But, before the interview started, Matt and I got a chance to catch up and we are just bouncing ideas off of each other. And thankfully, it got recorded!
It’s a little bit of a prelude into the depth of the conversation that Matt and I were able to have about the realities of teen lives right now. So, sit back and enjoy!
Matt Clinton, Fellowship of Christian Athletes: These two boys I started discipling this year are really good kids. But, while they are interested in following Jesus, they really don’t know how. So, this isn’t as much of a discipleship group, but it’s really more like a beginner Bible study – which is different from what I usually spend my time on when I actually pull kids out of all the masses of kids we have. And they’ve gone to FCA camp. They’ve been around FCA huddle. So they have heard. But, they didn’t really ever own it for themselves.
And they shared with me that they both had had sex. And they were open to discussing the pressure of having to have sex. In fact, one felt pressure from his girlfriend. The other guy said, “I don’t even know why we had sex… we just did.”
And they still struggle with that. But, no one had ever talked to them about it. All they every heard was “NO!” It was like, “See this giant big red button? Don’t press it!”
That doesn’t help! Not with anything.
So, it’s been interesting – talking with them them and trying to get through to them what the Bible says is God’s plan for our sex lives. The one boy is still dating his girlfriend and they still have sex periodically. But, how do we overcome guilt and shame?
I don’t want him to feel shamed, because they truly didn’t know that sex outside of marriage was against God’s plan. You’d think they should probably know, because they’ve been around God’s people for most of their lives. They’ve heard God’s word.
We just can’t assume that people are educated about what the Bible has to say.
Leslie Salazar Carrillo, I’m Waiting: They’re hearing, but they’re not listening. And it takes a while to penetrate that sin nature.
Matt: I was shocked. I started out by saying, “We’re going to read one of the four Gospels”, assuming they knew what the Gospels are. But now, I don’t assume anything. I had to explain to them, “These are the chronicles of Jesus’ life and perspectives. Which one do you want to start with?” They answered, “I dunno… Matthew?”
“Okay. Cool. We’ll take a chapter a week. Before too long, we got to the Beatitudes. I had to tell them, “These are heavy. There’s a lot going on in Jesus’ words here, but we will try to work through it.” They both come from divorced families. I come from a divorced home. And right there in the passage, Jesus talks about divorce.
That’s really hard to study about.
And then, one of the boys asked me, “So, why is it written in red?”
Remember, these are kids that I thought were understanding or hearing more than they actually were. I had to tell them how everything printed in red is Jesus speaking.
I think so often, we’ve educated people without making sure they’ve understood what God’s word really is or what it says. It’s not discouraging, but just a reminder not to assume.
Leslie: Yeah! We can’t assume anything. I’ve been teaching a women’s Bible study for the past six years, and sometimes they’ll ask questions that I thought they already knew the answers to… seemingly basic questions about Biblical truth. Yet, it’s the same way with any of us! Many times, you and I read the Bible and we are suddenly like, “Hey! I never saw that before!!” Because it wasn’t applicable to where God had us at that moment.
Matt: Yeah. We’ve done studies where we read the same passage for seven straight days and on day six or seven, I’m suddenly thinking, “That’s in there?!” I mean, we had read it all week. But it wasn’t until then that I understood it.
I heard somebody once say that if you can’t properly explain something to a four or five-year-old, then how well do you really know what you’re trying to explain?
And, I feel that way sometimes with some of these kids that I’m working with. I think, “Man… I’ve got a reboot here.” It’s not just, “Oh, they already know the basics of the Bible. We get to talk about what it looks like to go deeper into Scriptural truths.’”
Many of the kids I work with know that they have said, “Yes” to Jesus, but have no idea what to do next with their lives.
Leslie: Yeah. How do we live out Christian lives in the practical?
Matt: Right. And most of the kids that I work with are high-level athletes. Many of them are Division 1 recruits in their respective sports, so they are almost always at practice or at tournaments. When are they supposed to go to church or youth group? Assuming they want to, their schedules don’t have much room on Sunday mornings. So, for a least this one year – their Senior year of high school – we get to be church for them, meeting on their high school campuses, discipling and educating them in the midst of their busy schedules. Hopefully, they will learn and grow enough that they will truly own an understanding of who Jesus is and what God wants for their lives. Because, hearing about God is one thing. Owning Godly truth and living it out is something entirely different.
Leslie: And you know – full disclosure – I sometimes have problems with “The Church” because we have too often forgotten how to do church in the practical – how to be Jesus in the practical. So, because I’ve been reading and teaching in the book of Acts, the early Church didn’t have a church building. They met where they could. And guess what? That was church.
So, you’re bringing “church” to these athletes where and how they can be ministered to!
Sometimes we’re not in a position to go to church, for whatever reason, but that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t show up. We have to seek Him out and seek other believers and that’s when we have church. Now, we should never forsake the gathering of believers (Hebrews 10:25), but sometimes you have to adapt how that looks.
Sometimes, Jesus went to them – it wasn’t always people coming to Jesus.
The woman at the well – she was having church right there! The Gospel was presented. There was repentance of sin. There ya go!
I think sometimes we forgot to show Jesus and the practical – in the everyday. Because, especially for these kids you work with – those who have grown up in church – they need to be taught this aspect of Christianity more than ever!
They are longing to understand how reading and knowing what the Bible says practically relates to their relationship with God. In other words, “I got my Christian life and then I’ve got my ‘life’ life. How do they intermingle? What does God say? Why does He say it? How does that apply to you on a daily basis? What does the Scripture say about this and why does God say it?
It’s always “the why”. There’s a reason why!
Matt: I’ve been going through Tim Keller’s The Meaning of Marriage with a couple of college kids that I meet with. These guys are not even in serious relationships. They just want to prep more for when that day comes.
And I’m reading it, and I’m nine years into marriage. So, there are so much in those pages now that I go, “YEP! I get that!”
But these guys, it’s great prep for them to think about some of these topics.
It may not make total sense until they have their spouses and see how they work together. But, just to conceptually think about “love language stuff” and all that is amazing for them!
For years, I was trying to treat my wife the way I wanted to be treated. While she appreciated it, it wasn’t working for her as well. There are things like that throughout the Christian life that come with plenty of complications – even with the best intentions!
The road of my whole life is paved with the best of intentions and I would love to give this whole interview in one recording. But you’ll have to tune in next week, as we dive in and look at what life is like for the teams that Matt is mentoring; and the amazing work he is doing with them.
We hope you enjoyed this conversation and we know you’re going to really enjoy the next episode!
I’m still celebrating the graduation of my new producer and son, Ethan Streblow! Now, Ethan received an abundance of gifts and cards… and cards filled with gifts. It’s amazing how much money he received for graduating high school. But, after doing the math, it’s more amazing that I spent approximately $20 in food for every dollar that he received from his family and friends.
I think if I just handed him a check at the beginning of it all, we could have saved everyone a lot of trouble. I mean, we bought enough sub sandwiches to feed all of Philadelphia, for crying out loud!
But, the ceremony was great. Ethan received honors and was chosen to sing a solo. Couple that with his cap and gown and he looked like a musical Statue of Liberty.
What made it unique, though, is that – being in Minnesota – the ceremony was held at a hockey rink. It’s not common for commencement ceremonies across the country to be timed perfectly around the laps of a Zamboni. Nor does it typically happen that a graduation speech goes excessively long and the valedictorian gets stuck in the penalty box for five minutes.
Next up, my buddy Matt Loehr joins the show. I met Matt and was immediately intrigued by his story. He left his career in the corporate world to help people across the nation strengthen their marriages. So, today, he and his wife Pam work through their organization called Dare to be Different, offering revolutionary tips and techniques in marriage mentoring.
It really seems like a no-brainer that someone should have thought up of decades ago: train up people with healthy marriages to act as mentors to newlyweds and people with struggling marriages; then pair the mentors and mentees together.
Yet, Matt and Pam seem to be the first to put these pieces together nationally, proving that there is a comedic side to God. In fact, when it comes to God’s comedy, consider the very premise of marriage: take two extremely crazy people, put them under the same roof, as they live together for 40-plus years. There’s no need for a laugh track there! You can just imagine God sitting there with a bag of popcorn and a grin on his face as he sits back and watches married people’s hijinx!
Marriage is difficult, but God is, in fact, very interested in it. As Matt puts it, marriage is the bedrock upon which the Gospel is built upon. There are so many analogies that circumvent or stem from marriage throughout Scripture – from the Church as the bride of Christ to the relationship between us individuals and Jesus. All throughout the Bible, we see that marriage is a big deal to God.
Throughout his life, Matt has had front row seats to the good, bad and ugly sides of marriage. He saw his own parents suffer through struggles, laugh through triumphs, overcome infidelity, and rejoice in restoration. It’s an amazing story featuring God’s power and grace. Once realizing what God has done in his life, Matt realized that He was positioning Matt to get out there and help make a difference in people’s marriages.
But, Matt’s ministry hasn’t only affected the marriages of the people they minister to. It’s had an amazing impact on his and Pam’s marriage as well. They have learned to become better communicators, better negotiators, and have grown to understand and function better in their Biblical roles as husband and wife.
One of the tools Matt prescribes for couples is his Discovery Cards. These are conversation starters that go beyond the typical “How was your day?” questions. Some are as simple as, “What’s your favorite color?”; while others go a tad deeper like, “What is something you would like me to do differently when we disagree?”
I can speak as one husband whose marriage has been greatly impacted by these cards, as my wife and I have had some incredibly engaging conversations stemming from them.
You see, as Matt says, often times, once we get married, we stop discovering new things about our spouses. We seem to get ourselves stuck in a conversation rut, where we only discuss the kids, work, bills, or other stresses. However, there is an element of romance that can be found in the discovery of one another that is too often neglected.
One of the biggest “bombshells” of questions in Matt’s deck is “Describe your mother-in-law in terms of an animal”. No matter how deep or shallow the questions may seem, they almost always seem to draw out interesting conversations and strengthen the bond and romance between me and my wife.
According to Matt, the reason why we need conversation starters like the Discovery Cards is largely because men aren’t good at, nor do they really want to start these types of conversations. Typically, guys enjoy it early on in a relationship because they are pursuing their significant other – the chase is on! And when a guy is chasing after his bride, there is no stop sign he isn’t willing to run through.
But everything tends to change once married life settles in. We get lazy – both relationally and spiritually. That’s why Matt and Pam designed the Discovery Cards to draw out where husbands and wives are at, where they’d like to be, where they are happiest, where they want to grow in their lives, and maybe where they need to grow. These conversations aren’t always easy, but they do tend to be necessary.
Now, when it comes to their Marriage Mentoring program, life gets even more vulnerable yet rewarding for both the mentors and mentees. It’s a ten-week process, where participants spend one night each week with another couple for one-to-two hours. During this time, the mentors dive very deep into the mentees’ patterns and help them develop a new “Love Plan” for their marriage.
This stems from the fact that too often, husbands and wives loose sight on how to love one another.
Yet, when we look at what the Bible has to say about husbands and wives loving one another, the answers are pretty clear on how we should be positioning our spouse’s needs above our own and loving unselfishly. But since that is so difficult to consistently carry out, the Bible also instructs us how to mentor (or disciple) one another in things like marriage.
Where this all comes full circle for me are the marriage events called Never Stop Laughing. These are date nights featuring myself and Matt, where he gives a talk he titled “One Step From Stupid”, where Matt offers helpful advice for couples on how to stay out of the Land of Stupid in their marriages and lives; and then I take the stage and demonstrate stupid in a humorous way.
But these one-night events are merely entertainment. Our hope is that churches can use these evenings as a spring board to establish a group of couples eager to mentor other couples in their marriages.
e² media network™ offers weekly podcasts and programming featuring Christian Bible teaching about being a disciple of Jesus Christ, becoming a mature Christian and encouraging and equipping others in their pursuit of Godliness.
Jay Carty (Santa Barbara) engages with entertaining anecdotes, jokes, and stories woven with Bible teaching for a side-splitting, heart-piercing look into the truth about God.
Pastor Dewey Bertolini (Oregon) encounters contemporary everyday issues asking “What is the Bible teaching about this?” A look at life, liberty, and the pursuit of Godliness.
Jefferson Drexler (San Diego) encounters spiritual maturity with “pearls of fatherly wisdom”, truths and “dadisms” from his and other dads.
Gary and Dana Avánt (San Diego) build up and empower Christians and the Church (congregations and leaders) through dynamic topics about what it means to be healthy and mature followers of Jesus.
David Murrow (Alaska) is dedicated to helping the local church reach more men and boys. His focus is not male dominance, but male resurgence. His mission is not to call men back to the church – but to call the church back to men.
Missionary, Pastor and former Oakland Raider Ray Schmautz (Colorado) shares stories of how God has revealed Himself to Ray throughout his life and ministry.